Talk:Non-religious Thelemites and their views

(Revision as of 16:28, 9 Mar 2005)

Use this article to discuss unorthodox interpretations of Thelema or its various off-shoots. Again, please try to stick with either the knowledge base or common knowledge. In other words, please limit entries to views or practices held by reasonably substantial numbers of people. Examples might be a focus on satanism or the various cults of Babalon. Fr. Ash

This is a, IMO, a much better way to allow for expansion than simply moving the section around in a much longer article. Aleph

I thought so too. I really hope editors add a lot of great material here. Fr. Ash

The question remains: Alternative to what? By placing these nonreligious views in this article instead of the "Thelema & Religion" article, all that is being accomplished is to ghettoize the contemporary perspectives. Why not include this stuff in the section in Thelema & Religion where the question of differentiating between the religious and nonreligious is directly discussed?? This is what was proposed by myself and Paradoxos Alpha, and you said you wanted to see how it turned out. Why are you now, before it has been completed, trying to have it both ways? It makes for a very confusing presentation of the material and reduces the possibility that the material which you have included here will be found by those who are examining the question. --Thiebes 00:37, 9 Mar 2005 (CST)

I disagree. I feel that forcing non-religious views of Thelema into an article about "Thelema & Religion" is ghettoizing it. You are hiding the views down at the end of an article no one is going to read through. I am open to changes to the title of this article. I don't want my discussion at the end of your article. Thanks. Aleph

You haven't even looked at it if you think it's at the end. --Thiebes 10:01, 9 Mar 2005 (CST) Nevertheless I think the solution of calling your separate article non-religious and using that within the main article as a template could work.

The point is that it is essentially hidden is a large article mostly discussing religion. I did look at it. It hides and qualifies my views in a way that I don't agree with. As I said before, the topic deserves two viewpoints and two articles. Please simply link to the Non-religious Views of Thelema rather than attempting to copy or source this article into Thelema & Religion. This is an article that stands on its own, and it is not finished. I intend to expand it significantly. The whole point of trying to force me to put my material into Thelema & Religion seems to be to pre-qualify the idea of Thelema as "not a religion" with a "but it really is" context. I don't agree that that accurately reflects the views that I am attempting to document. Aleph

You wrote: The whole point of trying to force me to put my material into Thelema & Religion seems to be to pre-qualify the idea of Thelema as "not a religion" with a "but it really is" context

No, the point is to present the facts of both views together with traditional means to examine the question. Like you would find done in an encyclopedia, as opposed to an editorial article where one opinion is presented. --Thiebes 10:20, 9 Mar 2005 (CST)

Look, if you and Ash and P.A. and the other O.T.O editors are intending to force me to do it your way, just say so. I will go elsewhere and stop wasting my time trying to discuss the issue with you. Aleph 10:26, 9 Mar 2005 (CST)

I have no doubt that is what you'd rather believe, than to simply confront, with logical argument, the question of what it is that you are trying to do. Instead you resort to these kinds of veiled accusations. --Thiebes 10:28, 9 Mar 2005 (CST)

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